• Editor

  • 对于具有相同骨骼结构的不同骨架，如何使用同一套动画

    Chinese

As a side note: disabling inherit scale has the downside that you can no longer squash your whole character with scale.

the relative position of his leg attachments and the leg bones of the skeleton is not correct.

I don't understand the problem. Attachments coming from a skin are positioned separately from other attachments. You should be able to have transform constraints in a skin to move and scale bones, then you can still place your attachments in that skin as appropriate for the new positions and scale.

Can you show the problem with an example project? For example, here is spineboy with a tall skin:
https://n4te.com/x/9913-spineboy-pro.spine

should I create a separate skeleton for each character, keep the key nodes of the bones with the same names, and reuse animations through animation import

It would be much better to avoid duplicating the animations. While you can import animations across skeletons, you end up with 2 of the same animation. You need to redo the import to keep them in sync. It's extra work and easy to forget.

The runtime solution I mentioned might be better, though let's continue discussing the skin bones/constraints way of doing it first.

    Related Discussions

    Nate 我无法打开您提供的Spine项目，这个工程的版本信息好像不正确。

    您提到的运行时调整骨骼，可能也并不适合我们，因为我们的美术工作人员需要在Spine编辑器中预先预览确保每个动画的正确性，以及需要为每个角色的专有骨骼做额外的动画，在运行时调整骨骼，这对美术工作人员而言门槛太高了。

    我提到的关于附件和骨骼相对位置不正确的问题，可能描述有点不准确，由于我无法打开您提供的工程，下面我通过提供一个具有图片说明的例子来尝试解释下我们遇到的问题。

    上图中为骨架和角色A的适配情况，他们适配的很好，请关注红框内这个橙色的骨头。

    而在角色B的皮肤中，由于角色B的肩宽和角色A不同，所以导入角色B之后，红框内的橙色骨头和角色B手臂的相对位置并不正确。
    我们尝试用属于该皮肤的变换约束来调整橙色骨头的位置使之和角色B手臂相匹配。
    但是当我们调整变换约束的同时，这个骨骼下面的附件和插槽也会一起移动，哪怕我们勾选了“附件不会被父骨骼影响的选项”



    我们猜测可能是由于IK约束导致的，因为其他没有IK约束的骨骼，‘附件不会被父骨骼影响’这个功能能正常使用。而我们也需要Ik约束来制作动画效果，同时腿部也有同样的问题。

    所以我们尝试了先把插槽从橙色骨头下移走，来确保移动橙色骨头的时候不会影响到插槽以及其内部附件的位置，在通过变换约束调整完橙色骨头位置和网格匹配之后，再把插槽放回橙色骨头下，并且设置此变换约束是角色B当前皮肤下才生效，让该变换约束不影响其他皮肤下的骨骼，通过这种方式，我们确实将骨骼调整到了一个匹配角色B网格的状态。

    但是当我们切回角色A的皮肤之时，发现角色A的手臂区域插槽和骨骼的相对位置发生了变化，此时角色A的表现又变得异常了。

    我们猜测可能是因为插槽是共用的，我们挪动插槽的举动改变了其和骨骼的相对位置，从而影响到了使用该插槽的所有皮肤。

    是否有更好的办法解决我们的问题，如果没有很好的办法能解决这个问题的话，我们目前可能会考虑的做法是将每个角色单独做一个骨架，然后同一个角色的换装用皮肤功能制作，而非不同比例的角色用皮肤制作，这样在版本控制上，团队成员分布式开发制作动画还能避免Spine工程文件冲突。

        ECG_Kinsey I don't think the IK constraint has anything to do with this case in particular, the only issue is when you set the parent of the image attachment to a corresponding bone. The following is a very simple example, but I am assuming you are looking for a rig like this, is my understanding correct?:

        Here is the Spine project files:

        skinconstraints.zip
        192kB

        What I did should be almost identical to what you were trying to do. I imported images of another character and adjusted the transform of the bones to match that character's arms using transform constraints, then added the constraints to the character's skin. I then set the parent of the images to the corresponding bones. This allows you to place another character's attachments without affecting the position of the first character's attachments.
        I hope this will be of help to you.

            Misaki 这看起来和我们想要的效果很接近，我们因为角色的手臂长度不同，在变换约束中额外做了缩放处理，不过这个应该不是导致问题的原因，可能是哪个步骤没做对。

            所以想请教一下您制作的步骤细节，如果角色B作为皮肤导入，那么角色B的手臂附件和角色A 的手臂附件应该是共用一个插槽，在通过变换约束调整B的手臂骨骼和网格相匹配的过程中，角色B的手臂附件会随着骨骼移动而跟着移动，这个时候，您是如何处理这个问题的呢，是否先将手臂插槽的父节点设置为其他骨骼来避免手臂骨骼的移动造成的影响呢，然后等调整完骨骼并且将约束添加到皮肤后再将插槽的父级设置回手臂骨骼，是否是我理解的这个样子呢？

            感谢您的耐心解答，期待您的回复

              Misaki 我是否在调整变换约束的过程中不应该去移动插槽，而是去移动插槽下的附件，这个貌似是我出现问题的根本原因？

                  Nate 有关之前您提到的附件缩放的处理办法

                  我们遇到了新的问题

                  目前通过变化约束缩放骨骼和在IK控制的骨骼节点下新增新的骨骼禁用缩放，我们让骨骼尺寸适配了新角色的附件尺寸，可是当我通过IK去控制这部分骨骼变换的时候，IK所控制的骨骼长度发生了变化，导致骨骼和附件又一次的匹配不上了。


                  不确定这个问题是否和变换约束缩放IK骨骼长度有关，求助

                      ECG_Kinsey (Except for the IK issue you just posted, this is an answer to your earlier question on the matter.)
                      I think your understanding that you need to move the attachment is correct, but it's hard to explain well in words, so I've recorded the process of setting up the example I just posted above and uploaded it below so you can take a look at it:

                        ECG_Kinsey Hmmm, as far as I have tried on my end, changing the bone scale in the transform constraint does not produce that result. I've attached a updated Spine project with the results of my own testing (in skin B I scale the arm bones via the transform constraint UpperArm_Position_B):

                        skinconstraintswithbonescale.zip
                        35kB

                        Perhaps the quickest way to confirm your problem is to see your Spine project in person. A minimal Spine project with irrelevant parts removed would be fine, so could you email it to us?: contact@esotericsoftware.com

                            Bone and attachment (Images) compensation affects manipulating bones in the viewport. It does not affect applying constraints. It is not applied when adjusting a transform constraint.

                            You are fine up to this step:

                            If I understand, you parent the slot to the root bone, apply the transform constraint, then parent the slot back. That puts the arm in the right position, but in your original skin the arm moves. Is the arm that moves in the same slot? If so, then you can't use parenting the slot to the root to move your attachment. Instead, parent only the attachments in the second skin to the root bone in a new slot, apply the transform constraint, then parent them back and delete the temporary slots on the root bone.

                            As a simpler test, instead of changing the parent of attachments in the tree, just manually move the attachments to be in the right place in the viewport. Each attachment has its own position. Moving one doesn't affect other attachments in the slot or in other skins. (Except for linked meshes, which share the vertex positions.)

                            For your IK scaling problem, you probably need to set the transform constraint to local and possibly relative. In general it's not possible to tell what is going on from an image or GIF. If you can send a .spine file it would be easier to provide guidance.

                              Misaki 已经准备了一个工程通过邮件发至对应邮箱，可以复现这个问题，我的Spine版本是4.1.24

                                Nate

                                test.zip
                                126kB

                                这是我模拟的工程，删除了无关的骨骼，可以复现这个问题

                                  Thank you for the simplified project. The first thing we will do is delete everything that doesn't affect the problem, so I appreciate that you have done that.

                                  The problem is here, the constraint [FIX]F-arm:

                                  Image removed due to the lack of support for HTTPS. | Show Anyway

                                  When scale X and scale Y are different values, it is called non-uniform scale. This constraint applies non-uniform scale to bone F-arm. The bone F-wrist is a child so it inherits scale from its parent. That scale from the parent is applied in the direction of the parent. When F-wrist points in the same direction as the parent, F-wrist is scaled shorter. When F-wrist is rotated 90 degrees from the parent, it is no longer shorter, it is instead made wider. As your IK target is moved, F-wrist is rotated and the scale from the parent changes its length.

                                  To fix it, use uniform scale, where scale X and scale Y have the same values:

                                  Image removed due to the lack of support for HTTPS. | Show Anyway


                                  With this, no matter what rotation F-wrist has, it will always be the same length.

                                  You probably want to use uniform scale in other areas. I also suggest turning off transform constraint mixes you don't need, eg rotation and shear.

                                  I forgot to mention, my earlier project was saved with 4.2, so it won't open in 4.1. It's probably not useful now anyway.

                                    Nate 就是这个导致的，我这边按照你的指点调整了以后也顺利解决了，非常感谢你和Misaki的耐心讲解，我学习到很多，感谢有你们的帮助！

                                      Sure, we're glad to help!

                                      It is a little unfortunate to need to disable inherit scale to change bone lengths for skins, and to have to introduce intermediary bones for attachments. We'll consider other ways to change the bone length. For it to be in the skin, it'd need to be a constraint.

                                        Nate 期待未来有这么个功能，这样子的话会方便很多。

                                        请教个问题，之前您提及到建议关闭不需要的变换约束混合，哪怕我当前开启的变换约束混合没有发生作用，这也会有额外开销或者其他影响吗

                                        如下图所示

                                          Nate 之前提及的问题一切都解决的很顺利，等我们绑定完骨骼开始预览动画的时候，出现了新的问题。
                                          我们发现通过变换约束缩放的骨骼在父节点旋转的时候，无法保持固定的相对位置，会随着旋转产生偏移量。
                                          请关注下面图中肩膀的位置

                                          这是通过普通的骨骼绑定产生的效果，也是我们期望得到的效果。

                                          这是通过变换约束调整不同尺寸骨架绑定的效果，这种方式在旋转的过程中，产生了异常。

                                          testrotate.zip
                                          94kB

                                          我们准备了一个工程文件，可以复现这个问题。在这个工程中，有两个骨架，分别命名为“Wrong”和“Correct”，他们一个表现正常，一个表现出了我上面所述的问题。

                                          我们已经做了很多检查，不知道我们做错了什么，希望能得到帮助

                                            You mentioned before that it is recommended to turn off unnecessary transformation constraint blending. Even if the transformation constraint blending I currently enable does not take effect, will there be any additional overhead or other effects?

                                            Yes, the transform constraint does extra work for rotation and shearY. Set the mixes to 0 for transform properties you don't need to affect.

                                            Thank you for the reproduction Spine project. The behavior occurs because you are using the transform constraint in the world coordinate system. When doing that "up" is always toward the top of your monitor. When the bones rotate, moving the bones toward the top of your monitor becomes the wrong direction.

                                            To fix it, check Local. This moves the bones in their local coordinate system, where "up" is in relation to the parent bone. That way when everything rotates, the up direction also rotates, and the shoulder stays in the correct place in relation to the other bones and attachments.

                                            After changing to Local you likely need to reposition your bones.